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Werner Says That Jack Was a Liar
He has allegedly stated that he does not want to 'go back' to being Jack for that reason.
If someone with a hidden agenda of domination were to become adept at performing a balancing act by staying in a kind of vague ambiguous communication at the nexus of meaning, then he would be neither a liar nor a truth teller, would he?
Could that be what the Leader of est means who he states 'there is no reality only perception'?
Is that what he means when he states everything is meaningless and it is also meaningless that it is meaningless?
Is it this 'meaningless' he espouses that opens him up to limitless 'possibility'?
Is that like an excuse in absloute terms for any behaviour?
Do you forensics cops see anything quite meaningful in this kind of thinking?
I do. Dr. Fenwick posed the question: “And what does the sociopath get out of 'it'”?
I have some ideas on that and should anyone develop the quaint notion that targeted victims might have something to contribute to the assessment of their own reactions and the understanding of their own experience, I would still be happy to meet you at the police station to discuss it despite the fact that is has been 'too long' now for me to expect anyone to admit to anything, apologize for it or make amends.
But then, you know us whack jobs! We can never let anything Goooooo....
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est- HOLE TITLE SEARCH
Luckily for me 'there is no right or wrong' and all is 'meaningless' so I know there will be no objections to my opening up to 'possibility'...
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| Depersonalization Segment 2 |
10/29/2008 |
The Attempted Depersonalization and Reconstruction Of My Identity:
Segment 2
2:23:05 PM
My Psychiatric Label and How I Got It.
By Patricia Lefave, Labeled, D.D. (P)
Intelligence Or Schizophrenia? Does It Depend Upon One's Status?
After reading this article at the link listed just above, I was struck by something that seems to be a very common assumption with many people. We need to question this more often, rather than just automatically following those who present themselves as experts on just about everything.
Should We ALWAYS Believe Doctors Know Best?
Meanwhile, I believe my protagonist was feeding his co-workers an opposing version of the "reality" which was between him and them, again, "covertly." I suspect, but don't have the concrete proof of this, that he had actually started giving them a version of "reality" even BEFORE he sucked me into his little con game. I think the two original versions may have been something like this:
1. The version I got, that he had some sort of personal interest in me (which he never did clarify though asked) and that there was some sort of "joke" or "game" going on between us. He had even said in one of the outer hall chats, "We have the same sense of humour too. You could take a chance...." then went back into his unit and (not ‘or,’ as shown in the demo) gave them the opposite version. He had learned in his training to understand that ''life is a joke; it's a game," something that I also learned in 99 when I found the book revealing the ‘secret’ contents of this training.
2. The presumed version the group got seems to be something like this:
That he had no interest in me, didn't have any idea what I was talking about, so they were playing a "joke" on me, and/or, that I was a "schizophrenic" and this was an intervention. I never could understand WHO got WHICH version of "reality" which he was defining for us all, nor WHEN they got them. I had the impression that he played ''switch'' a bit with that too.
As shown in his training, he then played the two sides of his opposing versions of reality, of against EACH OTHER; me as the target on one side, and the group of his co-workers at the hospital on the other. He had learned to enjoy watching the action between the two manipulated "sides."
He encouraged the group (covertly as always) to give their opinions about what was going on with me in order to get it going by ‘group contagion’ as shown. In his training, microphones were given to everyone to share their opinions and any complaints, and also to offer their ''interpretations'' of the meaning behind the abstract concepts. He had seen that everyone always had various opinions about that. He also knew that the group members would PROJECT their own beliefs into the vague abstract offerings from him. Meanwhile he continued to bait me whenever it looked like I was backing away from him, just as his training demonstrates.
When I tried to talk to him directly about what, if anything, he wanted, he became MORE vague and abstract with me, something I asked him to please stop doing and just give me a straight answer. (I even called him a twit once about that) But you see, BEING vague and abstract is part of the set up. An important part of this is that it will allow him to do the existential "shift" in meaning whenever it suits him. When he does that, everyone involved tries to determine what he MEANS exactly, and he won't clarify that as he also knows that ‘change causes persistence’--that those of us who are NOT "enlightened" as HE is, and are still stupidly ‘reasonable’, will tend to keep trying to make sense of what is going on. That is because we have not been specially ''trained'' to get our own way by being "unreasonable", like HE has. He has been shown and has ‘witnessed’ the ‘power’ in that and how it can be used.
It is noted in the book by the Psych. Prof. that part of this routine is about the "set ups" that are often seen by the trainees as ‘e.s.p.’ when the leader controlling the demonstration repeats back information collected from one person, to another person, through a third person. Only the one doing the gathering and the repeating is fully aware of the set up. That is because the target and the group being ‘fooled’ have no DIRECT contact with each other so they both have missing information which if known, would allow them to make better sense of the interaction. So this shows that if you accept that life has no real meaning and ‘there is no right or wrong’, you too can learn to get your way by being ''UNREASONABLE.”
That's how he changes his "perspective" to gain power and control. All the vague, abstract style of communication used by him caused everyone involved, myself and the group members, to attempt to "interpret" what was going on ( as demonstrated in the training) in order to try to make sense of it. (You’re starting to get the "fun" of this now aren't you?)This was about the time that he had actually told me he was a member of this particular group and that he understood me BECAUSE he was one. He knew that I listened to the concepts behind the details when residential patients were altered, because I could validate someone on THAT level, even if I didn't know for sure if what they were saying was precisely concrete reality or not. He knew that like HIM, I also knew that everything was true on some level, and that I heard the symbolic meaning behind it just as he did. I had not taken this training myself, though I had heard of it, and knew something about it. At the time, I did not see the connection. It was one of the things I asked him to explain but got no answer. (I had once said to another nurse in his presence that the patients in psychosis were not speaking in meaningless language when altered but rather in a more symbolic form of REAL meaning, about their real lives.) I believe his lack of an answer was also out of the training processes as he was told, "you answer only the questions you feel like answering."
One day, not too long after that, it dawned on me that the "joke", the "fun" involving me was a demonstration of the training he had taken and of the existential shifting I had read about thirty years or so before. I decided that was what he had meant when he indicated to me (always vaguely of course) that this was a "joke" which I assumed included me in all the fun. After all, he had said to me in the same talk we had had about books we had read etc. ''We have the same sense of humour too. You could take a chance.''...Smiling broadly while he did this....with no witnesses to it. I guessed that had something to do with the concept of ''Witnessing'' in his training; either having no witnesses there or perhaps having people attest to what they BELIEVED was going on AS his witnesses, in relation to the premise of meaning he had given them from the beginning. I was to find out later that it really DID mean something like that, but that I was the target, (or object) of his so called ‘joke’ and at no time had been viewed as an equal human being or part of a group event for "fun." To him, it is LIFE that is the joke or the game, composed of ‘winners or losers.’ At the time though, I even went along with it (for quite awhile) in the spirit of group "fun." That is because I am the one who is not’ trained’ so I believed that I could find ‘reason’ where there was no ‘reason’ in the first place. (Stupid me. I have now learned my lesson)
In reality, I was cast in the role of victim, (who ‘deserves’ what she gets for BEING a victim) opposite his aggressor, (the ‘winner’ in the game of life) and the group he involved are the majority of followers, who just don't get it and follow the leader without question. As the psychology Prof. who wrote the book on his training noted; ''You can fool all of the people, most of the time.'' p.29
She also noted: ''It's about hate'' and clearly states, the power is real. He was, and is, ''making his life work'' as taught, by being in control of reality itself, creating and defining It for all others.
Meanwhile of course, he was apparently pushing his other version of "reality," involving as many people as he could, who, in turn, gossiped endlessly and mindlessly about it with nearly everyone they knew. As I write this account, it is now April of 2006, (now it is October 2008 as I repost it) and they are all still yapping away, expressing their daily opinions on it all. It really is "amazing."
As is demonstrated in his training system, group contagion took over with everyone, everywhere, expressing their opinions. Around this same time I had started asking him if he was talking to other people about me while not bothering to respond to me directly, since I had started to hear snatches of what I was saying to him, but sort of warped somehow, from staff in other units from all over the hospital. He claimed he was not talking about me to anyone. I found that very odd since it seemed to be a non stop topic for everyone else, everywhere I went, including outside the hospital. Or were ALL these people just ''psychic''?
(Little did I know then, I was to learn from the 'experts’ the whole thing had been judged not to have occurred at all, and "really" I only "think" it did because I am crazy, and this awareness was really just my ‘paranoid delusions’ as my protagonist allegedly suggested to them, (unless he manipulated them to “suggest" it to him, smirk) in the first place.
Then the repeating back of everything I was saying increased, just as shown in his system's demonstration as I was to find out years later. (That was the "psychic" con part of the demo.) It was already outside the hospital and being repeated back to me by a bus driver on the General Hospital route, over the City Transit radio. Some of it seemed like a deliberate set up to me, designed to see what kind of a reaction they would get from me, as the driver smirked and called to his buddies over the radio. I now think part of it was JUST that, though I don't know even now which version of reality that was supposed to be. Was it intended as a joke as I soon assumed it to be? Or was it having a little "fun" messing with the head of the "nut" who would be too ‘crazy’ to notice anyway? I still don't know. I suspect he enlisted them to repeat back the things I was asking him or that others were "interpreting" about me. On the other hand, perhaps some of them were doing this on their own and my protagonist was unaware of it all. I would need a concrete investigation to find out for sure.
What was I to think? Since it was after a little "test" the nurse gave me, as supplied by one of the DOCTORS on his unit, was I supposed to be the "schizo" who was going to think people were reading my mind perhaps? I wonder. Was I supposed to take this as a "joke" including me, or was I supposed to be deliberately driven into a psychosis, as many people HAVE been after the training, and assumed to be inherently defective as planned by my protagonist. Did he suggest from the beginning that I was a "schizophrenic" even to some of the people he involved? Was THAT his pre-planned goal? Is that what he was creating and defining as reality for me? I want these questions answered by means of a real investigation and have clearly stated that, over and over again.
’Setting people up’ is considered to be acceptable behaviour in this nurse's training system. As long as they aren't anyone who is a member of his "special" group. He has allegedly stated to abuse victims at the hospital that "There is no right or wrong" and that THEY just need to change the way THEY look at it. It is amazing to me how often I hear this from so many; including those who have not been trained in any officially identified cults. It is like saying it is no longer wrong to be the aggressor. It is only wrong to be the victim, often expressed as the VICTIM'S choice, and that it is the perception of oneself AS a victim and the emotional REACTIONS to that which is the "real" problem. Perhaps this commonly accepted belief is the reason there are is such an abundant supply of "mechanical anuses" (as the nurse's hero calls him) in the world today. I have been told many times that I only "think" I am a victim, since "really" it is believed that this sort of thing does not happen. It wouldn’t be ‘reasonable’ would it?
As I was to discover later though, turning reality around one hundred and eighty degrees is the constant feature in this nurse's ''secret'' power system, along with running the routine backwards in time so that it can't be seen until after it's too late. Perhaps this works so well, and so easily, because we are a society that routinely denies abuse and instead, finds the fault in those who complain about it, rather than in the abuser.
As I went through this so-called ''game'' I became more and more aware of the similarity to every other dysfunctional group led by aggressors with hidden agendas. Even the Psych Prof. saw the resemblance to the "Classic Family" headed by the patriarchal autocrat. I am always amazed by the ease with which such people gain the support of the majority. When I could not be heard telling them the truth in a direct way, it really began to scare me. If the truth didn't penetrate, what WOULD? I wondered how much harder it would be to tell them anything if I had never even HEARD of the nurse from hell's "special" training. At least I recognized it and knew where to BEGIN to look for information. What has happened to those who have not recognized it, ‘out here in the world of reality,’ or to those who have never even heard of It? How many times has he done this before?
I very much doubt he had been able to resist the temptation to use this power until he met me. Why would he wait all those years to exercise this marvelous power on someone else? Later, I discovered it was pointed out inside the training that the majority would fail to see what was right in front of them. It was because of the switch at the beginning, which few even noticed, and the existential shifting of meaning from the deliberately vague abstractions of pseudo communication. I had read something about the shifting many years ago, that sort of flip flop off the nexus of meaning, but I did not know about the switch part of it. Finding out about that explained much to me. In fact, understanding the hidden switch and the reversed time sequence solved the puzzle for me; not only in relation to the nurse, but retroactively, in other areas of my life, with other domination types as well.
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A Cry for Help!
The concrete kind of help I really need.
I am 'Seeking the Attention' of the Locals Involved
This announcement applies to the local readers of my site only.
If you have any information at all, regarding my 'fascinating case' no matter how strange, or inconsistent it may be, please call the Guelph Police Service and let them sort out the details.
Leave your information directed to the attention of either Deputy Chief Brent Eden or for Maurice Obergan. Examples of information include your awareness of what was going on with the staff of Homewood as related to me, any news of a 'joke, game or intervention' as performed by them... Bus driver gossiping about it or 'covert' entries into my apartment, when I was not home, then or now, especially if you know of anyone who was let into them by my landlords. Please remember that what can be done to me can be done to anyone. If you have information supplied by the Fare box Fannies , from then, or now, or from bus drivers, or from Homewood employees TO bus drivers, please pass that along. Once again, I am asking you to come forward and tell what you know.
If you are an employee of the university, the city, a health care agency or Homewood and have been told to keep silent about it, and not to admit to anything (as I have heard some of you have been) please consider passing it along anonymously to Crime Stoppers of Guelph Wellington at this Phone Number:
Phone 1-800-222-TIPS (8477)
Or on line where you may remain anonymous at:
http://www.crimestoppers-wellington.com/
Or call: Guelph Police Services at 519-824-1212
Thanks to the honest people for your help.
You seem to represent the few.
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The Bottom Line for Everyone
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This is My Theme Song According to the Never Ending Public Opinion
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If you want to get attacked, try changing something
Woodrow Wilson
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My Protagonist once asked me, when alone with him in a hallway and without witnesses of course, if I had ever read, "Waiting for Godot..."
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Werner Erhard on being ‘responsible for whatever happens to you. '
"Really, there are no victims but people who bring the victimization on themselves."
Notice anything there?
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The Game that Never Ends
(Sung to the tune of 'the Song that Never Ends')
This is the game that never ends.
It just goes on and on my friends.
Some people started playing it not knowing what it was,
And they continue playing it forever just because,
This is the game that never ends…
Repeat until all the players are dead.
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You can’t reason with a machine.’
Jewish Holocaust Survivour
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